And OX either you or outlaw kept on saying I was giving a straw man argument. That is exactly what you are doing because you give an argument that no one can disagree with.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
That is very good orphan crow that you care about all the babies and children being raped on camera.and I don't think any reasonable person would disagree. So do you feel that they should be treated legally or by a moral code? What can any NGO do to a criminal vs what a government can do?
I understand you don't care about the grey areas. But you also feel that for instance a young couple should not be df'ed for having premarital sex, that would ruin their life. So my question stands. Should that young couple be arrested tried and convicted and put on a sex offender registry for sending naked pictures to each other. And that is not a hypothetical that is a real issue that happens all the time.
There is a case of a famous gay porn actor who lied about his age when he started to perform, he was either 16 or 17. It later came out that he was under age and the producer was charged with trafficking in child porn, there was questions of if someone kept one of those films even by accident would they be guilty of possession of child porn.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Ok OC yes I agree with you. Child porn is child abuse. Do you feel that a teen couple in NC should be considered child predators because they sent each other naked selfies? Or is there some gray areas? We may not agree on the exact gray areas.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Ok OC. Do you want governments to regulate morality or laws?
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
OC in your narrow definition yes that is child abuse. But again in your narrow definition, which is not the legal definition, of someone under 10. -
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
If you want to talk about the legality of Watchtower reporting cases of child porn then stick with the legality of it. If you want to speak about the morality then stick with that. Just because it is pointed out again it is a complex issue and a worldwide directive has to vary to some degree based on jurisdictions and how certain governments view it then you immediately switch. Is child porn showing the abuse of a child of course. but it is not that simple anymore.
There is a segment of porn that depicts legal performers that look exceptionally young in porn or the fantasy of some people to watch porn that fantasies legal performers who pretend that they are high school students. It is the law defines what is allowed depending on the jurisdictions. Then you have some countries where even the sex acts of not 18 year olds but only 21+ is allowed. It is a complex situation.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Matthew is speaking of a spiritual aspect and not a legal aspect. Can the police arrest you for saying, God I want to kill that guy, if you don't make a specific threat or plans to murder that person? No, they can't arrest you for your thoughts. When was the last time a person was disfellowshipped for thinking about commiting fornication or thinking about adultery. It requires putting those thoughts into action.
And you are conflating legal and moral questions together. Governments can only enforce laws not morals.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Everything that i stated is correct you may not agree with my conclusion but that is what the law is. So are you saying that you feel that teenagers should be arrested and prosecuted for child pornography?
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
This is a much deeper subject. What is defined as child pornography is different and has different exceptions based on what is the image and how it is used. By your definition a doctor conducting research by taking pictures of children's genitalia where that child has a medical condition could be construed by some as child pornography. Or if a parent innocently takes a funny picture of children in the bathtub playing like many parents did in the past that could be construed and child pornography. Or if a teenager takes a naked selfie of themselves and sends it to their boyfriend/girlfriend who is also under age both have trafficked in child pornography. In the US there is also been cases where there has been virtual child pornography cases where the courts have ruled that only an actual minor can be considered in the trafficking of child pornography. Also, most states and the federal government allow for the accidental viewing or downloading of child pornography but is also very specific depending on the jurisdiction on what needs to be reported and what doesn't.
Justice Stewart wrote:
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." So there is always questions when it comes to pornography.
Also you have to remember some jurisdictions like Australia has much stricter rules on pornography in general than other jurisdictions. And what you are quoting from is a worldwide document.
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Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents
by Simon injudge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.
imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.
by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.
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Richard Oliver
Watchtower just filed the opening brief in this case. All california appeals court briefs can be accessed through the the 4 main law libraries in California:
http://calcountylawlib.libguides.com/calbriefs
Appeals court case number: